Ranked is full of absolute garbage players

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Re: Ranked is full of absolute garbage players

Postby NoOne-NBA on Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:27 am

Midremit wrote:And I'd argue even that is because of your age (you are a bit older than most of us, right?

I think age and dedication are two of the major players, when it comes to rank in this game.
I'm "only" 53, but can definitely see where I am slower than I was 20 years ago, when I was playing arena shooters.

FlashPower is correct about there being minimum levels of mental acuity, manual dexterity, and reaction time necessary to reach high-Diamond.
The threshold for all of those are considerably lower than he believes them to be, however.
I have seen a lot of "high-Diamond" players who lack technical skill, compared to him.
The day he finally rounds out his game, with true teamwork, he'll be rocketing for the top.

While Age puts me behind the curve to start with, Dedication is the area where I really fall short, and I'm OK with that.
Where FlashPower has devoted his life to improving his technical skills, and grinds to learn each and every advanced technique, I refuse to do anything that isn't fun.
That approach leaves me having to learn everything on the fly, in actual matches, rather than benefiting from the muscle memory developed by repetition.

On the other side of this though, my approach allows me to enjoy myself during the process.
Good matches are the reward I am seeking, and I find a lot of them, regardless of the level at which they are played.
By contrast, FlashPower will be forever surrounded by frustration because his reward is higher rank, which has moving goalposts built into it, battling against any sense of contentment.
Where I am able to see the good games I am getting, and appreciate them in their own right, he can only see the "work" he still needs to put in, to reach his latest goal.
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Re: Ranked is full of absolute garbage players

Postby Glassman94 on Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:00 am

NoOne-NBA wrote:..........
On the other side of this though, my approach allows me to enjoy myself during the process.
Good matches are the reward I am seeking, and I find a lot of them, regardless of the level at which they are played.
.........


Agree 100%

True Story:
Years ago I owned a hobby shop and promoted R/C races in our parking lot.
Imagine my surprise when Billy Vukovich (Indy 500 competitor) showed up to race R/C cars.

So I asked Billy, "You've raced at Indy, and you still race R/C cars?"
His response, "Racing is racing, it doesn't matter if it's Indy cars, R/C cars or barstools. Racing is racing". He raced for the fun as much as he raced for the win.

I've won many trophies over the years but my most cherished race was actually a loss. I raced in the A-main with Billy on an oval. We made multiple moves on each other, swapping the lead many times. In the end, he won by inches. I was disappointed until he approached me, shook my hand and said, "You're a great driver". That moment means more to me than all the hardware collecting dust in the garage.

Too many of us are focused on our MMR instead of how much fun we have.
Nasty chat messages are prof the sender has lost touch with why he plays this game. Sad.
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Re: Ranked is full of absolute garbage players

Postby Glassman94 on Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:13 am

ooooooops
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Re: Ranked is full of absolute garbage players

Postby Scyonite on Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:24 am

Glassman94 wrote:ooooooops


Gotta psyonix that one :yaypsyonix:
[how about no]
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Re: Ranked is full of absolute garbage players

Postby Glassman94 on Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:48 am

Scyonite wrote:
Glassman94 wrote:ooooooops


Gotta psyonix that one :yaypsyonix:


Livin' inside people's heads rent free. Love it.
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Re: Ranked is full of absolute garbage players

Postby Midremit on Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:31 am

NoOne-NBA wrote:
Midremit wrote:And I'd argue even that is because of your age (you are a bit older than most of us, right?

I think age and dedication are two of the major players, when it comes to rank in this game.
I'm "only" 53, but can definitely see where I am slower than I was 20 years ago, when I was playing arena shooters.

FlashPower is correct about there being minimum levels of mental acuity, manual dexterity, and reaction time necessary to reach high-Diamond.
The threshold for all of those are considerably lower than he believes them to be, however.
I have seen a lot of "high-Diamond" players who lack technical skill, compared to him.
The day he finally rounds out his game, with true teamwork, he'll be rocketing for the top.

While Age puts me behind the curve to start with, Dedication is the area where I really fall short, and I'm OK with that.
Where FlashPower has devoted his life to improving his technical skills, and grinds to learn each and every advanced technique, I refuse to do anything that isn't fun.
That approach leaves me having to learn everything on the fly, in actual matches, rather than benefiting from the muscle memory developed by repetition.

On the other side of this though, my approach allows me to enjoy myself during the process.
Good matches are the reward I am seeking, and I find a lot of them, regardless of the level at which they are played.
By contrast, FlashPower will be forever surrounded by frustration because his reward is higher rank, which has moving goalposts built into it, battling against any sense of contentment.
Where I am able to see the good games I am getting, and appreciate them in their own right, he can only see the "work" he still needs to put in, to reach his latest goal.


I'm pretty certain about the influence of those factors. They're also intertwined. Getting older means getting more responsabilities so less time for gaming or dedication as you call it. The learning curve is always going to be slower/harder or whatever you want to call it.
When I look at my old style and compare it to the current one, I'm also far less creative. But using the experience to make up for the lack of crazy shots. I also think muscle memory decreases as you get older (perhaps like your father), just like other physical abilities in life. You can however go a long way compensating this by applying your (life) experience, which is what you seem to do.
Coupled with that great mentality of just having fun, probably by having competitive games or seeing your friends/dad screw up, I think you'd be a joy to play with.

I personally enjoy the matches with my gold friends the most, it's just laughter all along and I couldn't care less about my rank decreasing during the process of having teary eyes induced by constant fuckups. Obviously when I screw up once (which happens every time), I'm hearing it for months, and rightly so.
I'm with the ball curve lobbyists!

NoOne-NBA wrote:Quite the opposite, there's usually somebody who steps up to the plate, and does something more stupid than anything I was able to imagine, even though I have always had a very active imagination.
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Re: Ranked is full of absolute garbage players

Postby FlashPower on Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:28 pm

You can call it ignorant. But why do I think what I say about "quality wins" is still right? You can read it like a book. And you can play it like this. Here is my kinda way I see of developing.

I always watch top players on Twitch playing it. But I even watch average Grand Champ Player playing this.

Platin 1:
Here for sure, you have the most less problems to get through this elo. Because the smurfs or premate smurfs are just to good that they stuck long around there. You have way more people who have actually platin 1 style. Platin 1 is easier to make.

Platin 2:
Here I can feel already a big different. Some people are already smurfs you have on opponent side. But on me it feels more like these people dont really put the effort in this elo because they take it not too serious. Your own mate has a bit more less quality. With some effort you can still come through the Plat 2. In 3s and 2s plays. But at Div III you already have a chance you get hardcore premate smurf opponents.

Platin 3:

AND HERE its already extremely hardcore. The most opponents are premate smurfs now almost everytime. You are directly in the middle of action. And to be honest, they play ALMOST the same speed roation and individual style like you see in every Diamond 3 or Champ 1 match. And this is not lied. This probably goes through the entire Plat 3 till Dia3/Champ 1 on one same kind of level. First Champ 2 it goes another dimension again where you see way more sick shit. But for fact when you go through Plat 3 you really really should be challenge tested on way way higher ranks.

For what reason yes, you kinda have average players now all the time on your side while dealing with there hardcore premates. What makes it way more important to have kind Dia 3 quality. To say, its an obligation. And you can trust your mate. Give him trust, but it is very "limited" because of their limited quality(cant get easy balls in the defense, easy levered out with dribblings/flicks, barely can play any aerials it is just aerial tries and errors with less earnings, cant hit balls from the wall to avoid the ball bouncing against the wall - too much basics are missing. Even if you rotate, you kind end more focused on yourself and your quality to make it through and carry. You have to fix more the missing things your mate cant play. This makes it hard. It is an obligation to have the basic standards and the speed you have on Dias 2 or 3. It is a pure fight and sweating and this on Plat 3.
What probably even has to do with stuff like when you dont have these brainabilities to play the high standards that easy like other player do who are already long-term Champ 1 2 or Grand Champs.
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Re: Ranked is full of absolute garbage players

Postby Scyonite on Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:57 pm

All they're doing is fooling you. And you believe it and fool yourself. A platinum three player can't do mechanics and quality as well as a Champ 1 player. This player is platinum three for a reason. Once more, and the last time; you are only looking at the presentation of the game. You don't look at the game in a deeper understanding. You don't try to understand why players do what they do. And this is what you lack.

This is also why looking at pros actually is bad for you. They possess very high mechanical skill and, furthermore, overall game pace is very high. When they make plays with their team they make sure they match the pace of the team. You don't see that they do that. You only see how fast and consistently they play. And therein lies your mistake. You can't try to "rush" the game with a random platinum three teammate. You have to slow your expectations down to the rank you're at. And start working upwards from there. Stop rushing, taking over and/or overpacing your teammate. Give them space, match their pace and cover when you need to. Make your teammate comfortable and your teammate will be able to make your comfortable.

From this angle we can also define your current problem; you don't know or understand how to make your teammate comfortable. As a result, your teammate is unable to make you comfortable. You do realize they can't and further escalate the problem. The root cause is you don't realize you actually created your own uncomfortable team environment. Your need to "carry" effectively creates your ENTIRE issue. A disbalanced team will never beat a balanced team unless the disbalanced team has an overly proportional strong player. You're not that player. No one solo-queueing should be. The matchmaking system makes that almost a certainty. Stop thinking the odds aren't in your favour regarding teammates; a solo-queueing opponent team would run exactly the same chances of consisting of teammates that "don't know any basic".

Again, I'm trying to directly counter your claims. I asked you to try and counter mine, instead of run the same explanation again. Wishful thinking.. I'll probably never get a response from you that at least tries to combat what I am saying. Stop sticking to your comfortable and flawed defense. We've already heard it 20 times. (probably literally).
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Re: Ranked is full of absolute garbage players

Postby FlashPower on Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:55 pm

Scyonite wrote:All they're doing is fooling you. And you believe it and fool yourself. A platinum three player can't do mechanics and quality as well as a Champ 1 player. This player is platinum three for a reason.


This is just right in limited ways. You are not wrong saying in Plat 3 or Plat 2 players dont have exactly same mechanical skills. you still sometime get matched wit hsuch hardcore brutal player same time having a just very bad mate. But it is not THAT exactly. Yeah mechanicals skills not everytime. BUT what you absolutley have is the same rotation speed and getting balls from the wall before touching it in the same high leve rate and speed like on Dia 3. There is almost no different anymore. The plat 3s do the same stuff in this with the same speed I notice this everytime. And it mostly only your opponents. The own mates are just stuck and dont know how to play basics. So you must see that you rotate on the same extremely high level like the enemies and same time cover your mate.

When you are an average player onyl you just cant do that. In this case it is what it is. Arent you highly challenge tested on the best ranks nowadays, then you have to stay out of rankeds its defnitly the wrong place. For me this is probably the case. My brain is too slow for so many fast stuff and key combos in same time.
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Re: Ranked is full of absolute garbage players

Postby steblood on Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:03 pm

Still believe there should be a rank between diamond and champion, like Ruby, or something.
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Re: Ranked is full of absolute garbage players

Postby NoOne-NBA on Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:17 am

steblood wrote:Still believe there should be a rank between diamond and champion, like Ruby, or something.

That won't help anything, except soothing a few people's fragile egos.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what picture, or name, you attach to the players holding various ranking numbers.
To make any substantive change to the system, you have to CHANGE the numbers themselves, or change how players holding those numbers are allowed to interact.
That's the part of this system where Psyonix keeps falling on their face.

Psyonix SAYS they are doing a soft reset each season, but doesn't actually RESET anybody.
They just reset the uncertainty in the system, which causes people to get thrown around even farther than they should, at a much faster rate than they should.
This creates even more chaos within the system, rather than calming it.

If they'd dump all the Champions down to the bottom of Champion at the start of a season, dump all the Diamonds to the bottom of Diamond, etc... it would create hard separations between those players that are non-existent under the currently used system.
Those separations would force Diamond players to play only other Diamond players, at the start of the season.
Some of those would drift upward, due to lack of facing Champion players repeatedly, while others would drift down.
When the upward trending Diamond players begin mixing with Champion players, the initial matches will only be "rising-Diamond/falling-Champion" matches.
If the upward moving Diamond players deserve Champion, this will make it easier for them to cross the threshold.
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Re: Ranked is full of absolute garbage players

Postby steblood on Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:41 am

NoOne-NBA wrote:
steblood wrote:Still believe there should be a rank between diamond and champion, like Ruby, or something.

That won't help anything, except soothing a few people's fragile egos.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what picture, or name, you attach to the players holding various ranking numbers.
To make any substantive change to the system, you have to CHANGE the numbers themselves, or change how players holding those numbers are allowed to interact.
That's the part of this system where Psyonix keeps falling on their face.

Psyonix SAYS they are doing a soft reset each season, but doesn't actually RESET anybody.
They just reset the uncertainty in the system, which causes people to get thrown around even farther than they should, at a much faster rate than they should.
This creates even more chaos within the system, rather than calming it.

If they'd dump all the Champions down to the bottom of Champion at the start of a season, dump all the Diamonds to the bottom of Diamond, etc... it would create hard separations between those players that are non-existent under the currently used system.
Those separations would force Diamond players to play only other Diamond players, at the start of the season.
Some of those would drift upward, due to lack of facing Champion players repeatedly, while others would drift down.
When the upward trending Diamond players begin mixing with Champion players, the initial matches will only be "rising-Diamond/falling-Champion" matches.
If the upward moving Diamond players deserve Champion, this will make it easier for them to cross the threshold.


That is a great suggestion. I have nothing else to say on the matter.
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