Cooldown on recieving prospect as a team mate in 2v2

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Re: Cooldown on recieving prospect as a team mate in 2v2

Postby NoOne-NBA on Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:10 am

xHGx Aj wrote:at least once your calibrated as bronze silver devision x or whatever then the system is fairly sure where u should be before that time it hasent got a clue

and if you cant see that then I dont know how to explain that in a way u can understand it seems perfectly reasonable to myself.

It's not that I can't see what you're talking about, as much as it is that I'm looking at all of it from the other end of thousands of hours of playing the game.
That gives me a better perspective, and allows me to see how unimportant this issue actually is, to the overall picture.

At the level you are currently playing at, an unranked player is exactly the same crap shoot as anyone else.
My 75-year-old dad has 3450 hours into this game, is ranked right around #2400 on Rocket League Tracker for wins, and you STILL won't want him as a teammate, even though he's currently ranked Silver 1 in 2s.
He's STILL prone to doing everything you are complaining about, with respect to Unranked players.

As far as Unranked players go, you're one of the few people complaining about the Unranked players being "not skilled enough".
Pretty much everyone else who comes here complains about being steamrolled by them, as opposition.
The reality lies somewhere between those two extremes, and bounces around so randomly, as to be a non-issue.
You have to learn to identify your teammate's strengths and weaknesses quickly, and backstop them appropriately.
That is a skill you will appreciate more and more, the higher you climb, as is field awareness, like "knowing where your teammate is BEFORE you make passes to him".
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Re: Cooldown on recieving prospect as a team mate in 2v2

Postby Scyonite on Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:24 am

I see this problem in a different light, I think.

Firstly, if you're in ranks where "prospects" are common then your opponents are just as likely to have prospect teammates as you are, given you all solo queue (which adds weight to NoOne's advice, although I disagree with that solution being the end all fix). The problem with a prospect is that their match weight, the MMR difference they can gain per match, is increased. They're able to overshoot their "correct" MMR. This has as an immediate result that you run chances of getting a prospect teammate that has overshot and is out of their league. You simply drew the short end of the stick twice. You do have to realize that because you now have lowered MMR your matches become easier and you run more chance of winning. This is my way of saying a few individual results don't matter at all for your end of the day result if you play a significant amount of matches.

Now, what you're asking for is that once the system identifies a prospect that has had a positive gain during their placements and loses with you as a teammate should enable you to skip being matched up with a prospect in a certain number of following games. I can understand that. It might actually be possible. The real problem is that it causes the playerbase that prospects can match up with becomes smaller as they lose. In turn, their matches become less optimal for determining their true MMR. Which, in turn, causes them to finish with a less accurate MMR, which they now have to plow through without being in their placements. The real fix to your problem also causes it.

There's two mental remedies here.

1) This can happen to you. Don't play a certain playlist for a certain amount of days are you're put back into the "unranked" position. You retain your current MMR, but are given matches in which you can quickly grow. Get an upset win in your winstreak and your next match will likely feel as if you've been thrown to the wolves. You can't handle it and can't do anything about it during that game, nor could your teammates in their matches. The best thing for you to do, as a teammate of a prospect, is to be as forgiving as possible.

2) Be sure to use your teammate to your advantage where you can. Adapt responsibly. Teammate chases? Let him chase and be their to pick up his play where he fails. Teammate is overdefensive? This allows you take up your play a second time if the situation permits without immediate repercussions, you only have to make sure you rotate out as soon as possible once your play plays out. Teammate is inconsistent? Watch your positioning more closely. Position for a wider range of scenarios. Teammate slows down plays? Slow down yourself. Play off of the next play that the opponents make happen, try to catch out the second challenger. Etc. The truth is so many people blame their teammate for "being bad" when they don't realize it's their own adaptability that's lacking in combination with a peculiar playstyle.

This game is not about how your teammate adapts to you, it's about how you adapt to your teammate.
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Re: Cooldown on recieving prospect as a team mate in 2v2

Postby Spiffers on Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:56 pm

Actually, if the specific case that you're referring to is when you play with the SAME unranked person multiple times, I think I lean a little more towards that specifically - when you're playing unranked, you shouldn't be playing rematches of either teammates or opponents in most cases. Although, I think Rocket League ruins the "most cases" by not really resetting MMR. But that's a different argument - why even force people to play "placements" that don't mean anything?
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Re: Cooldown on recieving prospect as a team mate in 2v2

Postby Scyonite on Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:06 pm

Spiffers wrote:Why even force people to play "placements" that don't mean anything?


Because Psyonix knows the system inflates over time. If you don't play a playlist for a long amount of time your MMR decalibrates because it is stagnant, while everyone else is ever so slowly rising in MMR (doesn't necessarily mean improving). The placements allow one to get to their calibrated rank more quickly; it costs less community MMR and matches to get there. But, in and of itself, it also enhances the inflation even further..
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Re: Cooldown on recieving prospect as a team mate in 2v2

Postby Spiffers on Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:50 pm

Scyonite wrote:
Spiffers wrote:Why even force people to play "placements" that don't mean anything?


Because Psyonix knows the system inflates over time. If you don't play a playlist for a long amount of time your MMR decalibrates because it is stagnant, while everyone else is ever so slowly rising in MMR (doesn't necessarily mean improving). The placements allow one to get to their calibrated rank more quickly; it costs less community MMR and matches to get there. But, in and of itself, it also enhances the inflation even further..


As I said, basically an entirely different discussion about pros and cons, and if a system can automatically deal with those pros and cons
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Re: Cooldown on recieving prospect as a team mate in 2v2

Postby xHGx Aj on Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:02 pm

Scyonite wrote:I see this problem in a different light, I think.

Firstly, if you're in ranks where "prospects" are common then your opponents are just as likely to have prospect teammates as you are, given you all solo queue (which adds weight to NoOne's advice, although I disagree with that solution being the end all fix). The problem with a prospect is that their match weight, the MMR difference they can gain per match, is increased. They're able to overshoot their "correct" MMR. This has as an immediate result that you run chances of getting a prospect teammate that has overshot and is out of their league. You simply drew the short end of the stick twice. You do have to realize that because you now have lowered MMR your matches become easier and you run more chance of winning. This is my way of saying a few individual results don't matter at all for your end of the day result if you play a significant amount of matches.

Now, what you're asking for is that once the system identifies a prospect that has had a positive gain during their placements and loses with you as a teammate should enable you to skip being matched up with a prospect in a certain number of following games. I can understand that. It might actually be possible. The real problem is that it causes the playerbase that prospects can match up with becomes smaller as they lose. In turn, their matches become less optimal for determining their true MMR. Which, in turn, causes them to finish with a less accurate MMR, which they now have to plow through without being in their placements. The real fix to your problem also causes it.

There's two mental remedies here.

1) This can happen to you. Don't play a certain playlist for a certain amount of days are you're put back into the "unranked" position. You retain your current MMR, but are given matches in which you can quickly grow. Get an upset win in your winstreak and your next match will likely feel as if you've been thrown to the wolves. You can't handle it and can't do anything about it during that game, nor could your teammates in their matches. The best thing for you to do, as a teammate of a prospect, is to be as forgiving as possible.

2) Be sure to use your teammate to your advantage where you can. Adapt responsibly. Teammate chases? Let him chase and be their to pick up his play where he fails. Teammate is overdefensive? This allows you take up your play a second time if the situation permits without immediate repercussions, you only have to make sure you rotate out as soon as possible once your play plays out. Teammate is inconsistent? Watch your positioning more closely. Position for a wider range of scenarios. Teammate slows down plays? Slow down yourself. Play off of the next play that the opponents make happen, try to catch out the second challenger. Etc. The truth is so many people blame their teammate for "being bad" when they don't realize it's their own adaptability that's lacking in combination with a peculiar playstyle.

This game is not about how your teammate adapts to you, it's about how you adapt to your teammate.


Finally a reasonable responce from someone that actuallys adds something to the discussion
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